Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor describe Gaza as “a moral tear in the universe” and argue that the current period amounts to “end times fascism”, in an extended interview opening a new Guardian podcast series, Radical Thinking with Aditya Chakrabortty.
Across the conversation the pair range over Trump 2.0, the rise of the tech billionaire, Gaza and the climate emergency. Their case, as put to the programme, is that the world is not merely lurching between successive crises — it has arrived at a new and dangerous point in history.
They nonetheless say they have not surrendered the prospect of a fightback.
Radical Thinking is to be published every Saturday in the Politics Weekly feed.
The episode is presented by Aditya Chakrabortty with Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor. Frankie Tobi and Luke Smith produced it; Maz Ebtehaj, Kirsty Major and James Tindale served as executive producers.
It was published on Saturday 10 October 2026 at 07.45 BST. A full video version of the interview is also available.
Among the reading suggested in the episode is Klein and Taylor’s End Times Fascism, out now, which began as a special essay in the Guardian.
For a contrasting assessment of whether Trump 2.0 is fascist, listeners are pointed to the economist Branko Milanović’s Substack.
On Elon Musk furnishing Donald Trump with millions while Trump in turn gives Musk vast access to power, the programme recommends a Long Read for the Guardian by Quinn Slobodian and Ben Tarnoff, along with their recent book Muskism: a Guide for the Perplexed.
For reporting on Trump’s second term, it cites Regime Change by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. On how the business class came to embrace Trump and chaos, it offers Paul Heideman’s analysis in his recent book Rogue Elephant.
Four further recommendations cover Silicon Valley’s new tech bros: Karen Hao’s Empire of AI, which Klein and Taylor cite regularly; The Nerd Reich, just out from Gil Durán; Technofeudalism by Yanis Varoufakis, a previous Radical Thinking guest; and The Rulers by Cecilia Rikap, on how AI is imposing a new age of total corporate control.
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